Interview with Jerry Kindall on Arizona Wildcats Baseball

Jerry Kindall retired as University of Arizona’s head baseball coach in 1996 after an illustrious 24-year career. Kindall led the Wildcats to three national championships (in 1976, 1980 and 1986) and finished with a 861-580 career record. Twelve Kindall-coached squads reached the post-season and.five played in the College World Series. Kindall, who starred collegiately at the University of Minnesota, is the only man to play for and coach a college baseball national championship team. He also played in the majors for eight seasons with the Chicago Cubs, Cleveland Indians and Minnesota Twins. In the following interview, Coach Kindall reflects on his career as skipper of the Arizona Wildcats.

 

Question: You were the head coach at Arizona for 24 years. What was your biggest thrill?

Answer: I think our biggest thrill was our first national championship in 1976. Arizona had been under Frank Sancet, a tremendous coach and a distinguished gentleman. He was very successful and they got to Omaha nine times but had not won [the College World Series]. … When I was hired, when Frank retired, … it was very clear to me that the University expected and wanted very badly a national championship. So, in 1976, when we did win the College World Series, I think that was the biggest thrill for me and for the entire University and the community.

Question: You won over 800 games at Arizona. What was your secret to success as a head coach?

Answer: Well, it’s no great secret. The reason I believe our teams did well and we won championships was that I took the teaching that I received from Dick Siebert, who was my college coach at the University of Minnesota and I was his assistant coach for five years before I came here to Arizona. I learned from Dick to be very well organized and prepare carefully. And also and perhaps this is most important, to take nothing for granted-that the players learn the fundamentals of baseball from the very ground up. And so, I wanted our team to be featured by fundamentally sound baseball and that’s what I taught and I credit Dick Siebert for impressing on me the importance of those two elements of coaching. Teach the fundamentals and then be very well organized and prepare carefully for every practice and game.

Question: Who was the best player you coached at Arizona and do you have one favorite player?

Answer: I have to answer that with two players. The best all-around players at Arizona in the 24 years I coached were Dave Stegman, who was a four-year letterman starting with 1973 through 1976 and was the stalwart of our national championship team in 1976. And then in 1980, Terry Francona. Those two players had it all. They could run. They could throw. They could hit and they could hit with power and they were outstanding fielders. Both of them were outfielders. So, those two I believe were the best all-around players that I coached here at Arizona.

As far as who was my favorite player, I really have many, many emotional favorites. Guys that I deeply admire who practiced hard and played hard and were stalwart men and were gentlemen. But to single out one or two or three would be unfair to all the others. I have many, many emotional favorites.

Question: What was the best team in your opinion you ever coached at Arizona?

Answer: The strongest team and best team was the 1974 Wildcats. That was the second year that we were here and my excellent assistant coaches at that time were Jim Wing, our pitching coach, and Mark Johnson, our hitting coach and outfield coach …. We had a record of 58-4 going into the regional playoffs and we were bumped off two straight by Northern Colorado in a tremendous upset and they deserved to win. Northern Colorado played very well. It was at their place so we were eliminated before we got to the College World Series. But for talent and for every element of a successful team, I think that that 1974 team had it.

That 1974 team served as the foundation for the 1976 championship because we had a good many sophomores in the lineup in 1974 that went on to become seniors in 1976. I’m talking about Stegman and Powers and Ron Hassey and others. So they were the solid foundation for our first College World Series champions.

Question: Your 1976 team was the first in any sport at the University of Arizona to win a national championship. What made that team special?

Answer: Well, what made the team special is that they had a vision in 1974. As I’ve indicated, we were an outstanding team but we were bumped off. And then they had a vision and a commitment—a crusade, if you will—to get back to the College World Se1ies. In 1975 we were beaten in a 1-0 game by USC, the eventual national champions, for the right to go to Omaha and that was in the regionals. So that was another bitter disappointment. But in 1976, it all came together and that’s what made that team special. It was a core group of players that had been [here in] 1974, 1975, and 1976, and they simply would not be denied in 1976.

Question: Who were your standout performers on the 1976 ballclub?

Answer: I do want to single out several. I’ve already talked about Dave Stegman, but then our MVP in the College World Se1ies was Steve Powers, who was a pitcher and designated hitter, one of the toughest and most hard-nosed players that I ever coached. He richly deserved the MVP there because he pitched and hit us to the national championship. But I believe the single player that got us over the hump was Ron Hassey. Ron Hassey had been an All-American third baseman in 1974 a a sophomore and then played very well again at third base as a junior in 1975. But we needed a catcher for that 1976 team. Jim Wing, who became my associate head coach shortly thereafter, suggested that we make Ron a catcher. Well, that meant Ron had to learn an entirely new position as a senior. He took that challenge and Jim Wing worked tirelessly [with Hassey] to convert him to a catcher. By the time the 1976 season got under way, he was our catcher and he became, I think in the College World Series, the single most important player behind the plate. He caught every inning. As I recall, we were beaten in the first game in the College World Series in an extra-inning game by of all people, Arizona State, a 7-6 loss. The next morning, in an elimination game, we had to come out in tremendously humid and hot weather to play Oklahoma. And Ron Hassey was the key behind the plate that day. … I’ll be forever grateful to Ron Hassey for being willing to change positions from having been an All-American at third base and a pro prospect, to be willing to change positions, go behind the plate, the dirtiest most underrated player on the field, I believe. He was simply outstanding that year. and particularly in the College World Series. He went on to catch 13 years in the big leagues, by the way.

Question: Coach, what was the best team you ever played against and who was the best player you ever saw play against you?

Answer: Well, the best team, it’s hard to isolate one team. Frankly, the USC teams in the 1970s that we played against and they went on to win the national championships oftentimes in the 1970s under Rod Dedeaux. They were always tough. They have tremendous talent. They had the Steve Kemps and the Dave Kingmans and the Roy Smalley Jr.’s and so on. Those are some names that come to mind. Then the Arizona State teams, in our own conference, that we had to play at least six times every year, were tough. I think one of the best teams that I can remember facing up and down the lineup was the Arizona State team. I forget which year, but it was when Barry Bonds was a junior and they had an outstanding array of talent and they were very, very tough to beat.

Question: Is there one opposing player who stands out?

Answer: Well, because he’s so fresh in my mind and such a folk hero now—Mark McGwire. When he played with USC as a freshman, he was a pitcher-designated hitter. He didn’t trouble us as a pitcher. We were able to get hits off him. But then as a sophomore and junior, he absolutely tore this league apart with his long ball. And wouldn’t you know, on the same team was Randy Johnson. When Mark McGwire was first baseman for the USC Trojans, Randy Johnson was on the mound. [To name one] outstanding player … is hard. I would really need to go through the records because there were so many outstanding players in our conference, the southern division of the Pac-10. But I guess I would have to give the nod for the moment to Mark McGwire.

Question: You faced two very talented pitchers for Eastern Michigan in the 1976 title game. Bob Owchinko and Bob Welch. Do you recall facing a tougher pair of hurlers in any game?

Answer: Not in any one game. They were outstanding players and shortly thereafter, they signed big contracts. Owchinko, as I recall, [signed] with the Padres and Welch with the Dodgers. … But by the time we faced them in the final game of the College World Series in 1976, their arms were a little bit tired and we had a fresh arm (Steve Powers) to go in … the title game. So, they both pitched. Owchinko started, Welch came in and relieved him. And even though they were tired after the long College World Series, at that time, they were outstanding. So to answer the question, no. In one game, facing two such outstanding pitchers, I don’t think there was any better in my coaching career.

Question: You mentioned your 1980 championship team was led by Terry Francona. Describe him as a player.

Answer: Well, describing him as a player is easy. He could do it all. I played with his father, Tito Francona, in Cleveland for three years and so I knew Terry as a little boy. In fact, he and my oldest child Betsy were of the same age and they would play together here in spring training in Tucson. The first thing I remember about Terry as a child was he threw sand in my daughter’s eyes and made her cry. They were about two years old. But Tito called me when Terry was a sophomore at New Brighton, Pennsylvania, and he said I’ve got a boy that’s a better player than I was. He says he’s as good a hitter as I am and he runs a lot better. So, I began recruiting Terry when he was a sophomore in high school. When he came here to Arizona, he was an immediate starter. He started in left field for three years and absolutely dominated the College World Series in 1980. He was chosen MVP. He was also chosen the Golden Spikes Award winner that year in 1980.

Question: Did it surprise you that Francona went on to manage in the majors?

Answer: I was surprised at first when he began to manage in the minor leagues in A-Ball in South Bend, Indiana, I believe it was, where he began. I thought that he would be very suited in the front office. He is a very bright young man. I wondered when he went on the field, would he become a coach some day at the big league level? I could see that. But a manager, I was surprised when he became a manager. I thought he was better suited at the front office or as a coach. But now, of course, he’s proven himself as a tremendous manager for the Philadelphia Phillies and I’m very, very proud of Terry Francona for many reasons. He’s a great baseball man. He’s a successful manager but more than that, he’s a very loving and devoted husband and father.

Question: Is there one game at the University of Arizona that stands out that in your mind as the most memorable?

Answer: Yes. That’s an easy question to answer. It was in 1986, the first game of the College World Series against Maine. We battled back from a 7-0 deficit and in the bottom of the ninth, with two outs, runner on first, two strikes on the hitter, Dave Shermet hit a dramatic home run over the scoreboard to win the game, 8-7. And so, after battling back that far to get the first victory, which is very important in the College World Series, to get off to a winning start. The first two years that we won the College World Series, in 1976 and 1980, we lost the first game. And this time, we won the first game and Dave Shermet’s dramatic home run, I believe, is the most memorable moment, for me in all of my coaching.

Question: Is there one player you coached that ultimately surprised you with his success on the professional level?

Answer: Yes, pleasantly surprised and very proud of this young man—Casey Candaele who went on to play and is still playing. He was on our 1980 team with Terry Francona. He went on to play seven or eight years in the big leagues, I believe. He was kind of a utility man. He can do it all, a little switch-hitter. Little guy, doesn’t have much power, can play the infield, can play the outfield, and he’s still playing in Triple-A to this day and I really didn’t think that Casey had that kind of ability. In fact, he doesn’t have a lot of ability but he has a tremendous heart and a real dedicated player.

Question: The Arizona-Arizona State rivalry has always been a bitter one on the field. How did you approach the Sun Devils as an opponent?

Answer: Well, those many years from 1973 until Jim Brock died, I believe it was 1995, Jim always had a great grasp of the game. He was a very innovative coach and you never knew what to expect. He did things as a surprise and they were hard to prepare for. He also was a very effective recruiter and had always outstanding talent. So, they were tough games to prepare for and we had some really knock-down, drag-out battles in the rivalry when we started coaching.

Jim Brock succeeded Bobby Winkles and I succeeded Frank Sancet. And there was a bitter rivalry with a lot of hatred in the stands, among the fans, not among the players. Bobby Winkles and Frank Sancet would not have permitted that, and Jim Brock and I did not like our players to get involved in such a hateful kind of approach to one another. So, for the first five or six years … there were fights in the stands and full house crowds, 10,000 people, that kind of thing. And a lot of enmity and bitterness came out of that rivalry. Jim Brock and I sat down in one offseason and together we tried to bring some civility and some moderation to that by communicating to the fans through the PA, by communicating through handouts at the stands, by talking through the press and media, to bring this to the proper place—that it wasn’t a civil war because there had been bloodshed, more in the stands than on the field, but that it was after all a college athletic contest. In time, the feelings began to moderate in the stands and we brought it back to a better, more healthy level. But they were always tough games with Arizona State and highly charged with emotion. It always seemed that when we were in the old Western Athletic Conference together, it inevitably came down to the last conference series with them as to who would win the championship and advance through conference championships to the regional finals.

Question: How has college baseball changed in your mind since the time you started at Arizona in 1973?

Answer: Well, the biggest change has been the use of the aluminum bat. The first several years I coached at Arizona, we were still using the wood bat and in 1974, I think, I first saw the aluminum bat used in a college game. It was optional. You could use wood or aluminum. We used wood through the 1974 season. 1975, we began to use the aluminum. 1976, we were full-fledged aluminum throughout college baseball. And that did change the game very much.

Question: You won your first college championship using aluminum bats?

Answer: As I recall, yes. Yes, we were using the aluminum bat at that time in 1976. Up to that time, we were using mostly wood. So, that’s the biggest change on the field. Off the field, it’s been the reduction in scholarships and NCAA control of how much aid you could give. When I first started coaching, there was no limit on scholarships so the schools that wanted to emphasize baseball—USC, Texas, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Arizona, Arizona State—there were probably 10 or 12 schools that had baseball as a major program and they budgeted in such a way. Well, then the NCAA began to take control and limit scholarships in all sports and it changed the domination of college baseball from a handful of schools, and that was Arizona, Arizona State, USC, Miami, and maybe Texas and some others. But it changed it to a more level playing field and no longer could Rod Dedeaux or Jerry Kindall or Jim Brock or Cliff Gustafson have a bench that was real strong by giving a lot of aid. You could get in players and give them virtual full scholarships so you had a strong program from player one all the way down to player 28 or 29. But then the parity [came] and I think it was a good thing. I’m not complaining about that. I think college baseball needed parity and now we’ve seen it in the last 10, 12 or maybe longer, maybe the last 20 years [and] other schools (have] come forth … LSU is one. Cal State Fullerton is another. Stanford, as a third, has had a strong, year-in year-out baseball program.

Dave Fanucchi is the Administrative Assistant and Director of Publications for USA Baseball in Tucson. He previously served as the Media Relations Director for Major League Baseball’s Arizona Fall League in 1998 and he assisted in the St. Louis Cardinals Media Relations department in 1996 and 1997.