Interview with Baseball Scout Ed Scott
This article was written by Ron Anderson
This article was published in Can He Play? A Look at Baseball Scouts and Their Profession
This interview by Ron Anderson was originally published in SABR’s “Can He Play? A Look at Baseball Scouts and Their Profession” (2011), edited by Jim Sandoval and Bill Nowlin. Interviews were conducted on October 12, 2006 and March 3, 2007.
RA: When we talked before you had mentioned that when you first discovered Hank Aaron he was playing softball. And you kind of went up along the third-base line, somewhere around the bleachers, and you got close enough to him to ask a couple of questions. And you asked him if he played baseball.
ES: Right.
RA: And he said, “Yes.” Then you said, “Well, who do you play with?” and his answer to you was, “I play for Mr. Lee.”
ES: Will…W-I-L-L.
RA: Do you know who Mr. Will was?
ES: No, I never did meet him. What he was doing in those days…he was some guy with some balls and bats, and stuff like that. [He] had a little team, you know, to all go out on the field and play, you know, back in those days. A little [informal] team, because they wasn’t organized; but it was just a little ball team that he played with. He [Aaron] was young. They’d get together. And so there [while on that field] I asked him, “How about coming out here and playing with the Prichard Athletics?” And then he asked me, well could I get him a suit? And I told him, “Yeah.” And I told him, “Well, they [Prichard Athletics] only plays on the weekend, and ‘I’ll be around there to get you this weekend.” So I goes around there and his mother wouldn’t let him go that day. She said she can’t let him go today but she’ll let him go sometime, you know. She didn’t know anything about the teams, and this was mostly men at that time. The team he was playing with was mostly boys – kids – you know. And so I go around there to get him and she wouldn’t let him go that particular day, so she [said she] would let him go sometime. I comes there next weekend. I go by there again and she [again] wouldn’t let him go. A matter of fact [Hank] Aaron saw me coming, and he knowed that his mother had told me that. So he saw me… and I kind of spot him between two houses. He spotted me and snatched his head back. But I saw him and I just thinked [acted] like I didn’t see him. And so she [once again] didn’t let him go. So I was telling my wife about [it]…that he…I found a good looking prospect but his mother won’t let him play baseball. And she says, “Why don’t you leave that lady’s boy alone. She knows what she wants her son to do.” And I says, “Yeah, but she don’t know what she’s got.” So I goes back on the next weekend and she tells me the same thing. And I drove on out to the park and I’m out there shagging balls because I was playing-manager with the team at that time, the [Prichard] Athletics. So I’m out there shagging balls in center field and I hear some guy [say] “Hey,” coming through the gate. [We had a] tin fence right out in center field that he comes in through that way.
RA: He had what in center field?
ES: A gate…where they come in [through] the gate. So I had the gate opened [inaudible]. So I looks around and there was [Hank Aaron’s] daddy bringing him in [to] the park. And I went on and got him a suit [uniform]. And so he goes in there and put on his suit. For the first time [Aaron was] up at bat he’s still [standing] straight up, acted like he was relaxed and [appeared he] wasn’t ready. And this pitcher here figured he [was] going to try to throw the first pitch by him, and he [Aaron] just lit him up right into center field. He didn’t hit it over the wall, but it was a line drive and hit the tin fence and you could hear it rattle [inaudible]. So when he started to play…he played about three games.
RA: With?
ES: Yeah, with the Prichard Athletics…about three or four games with the Prichard Athletics. I was playing manager, and [at one time] assistant playing-manager, yeah. Semipro.
RA: Okay, so he played three games with …
ES: Yeah, about three games with the Prichard Athletics.
RA: How old was he then, do you know, Ed?
ES: Seventeen, I think, yeah.
RA: Do we remember what year that was?
ES: That was in ’52…yes.
RA: 1952…now that was the same year, you said, you signed him to the Indianapolis Clowns.
ES: I signed him, uh huh. Right. So at that time I was working with the Clowns, and so…I booked the Clowns [games]. I booked the Clowns into Mitchell Field. That’s the name [of the field where] the Prichard Athletics [played]. In Prichard, Alabama. I booked the Clowns around Mobile and also in Mississippi, and I would book the Clowns. And all those [fields] I scouted from. Yeah, it was in Biloxi, Mississippi. So I booked them in Biloxi, there too.
I [was] talking to Syd [Pollock] about Aaron. So I booked them [Clowns] in there and Bunny Downs, he was the manager. So Bunny and I – in the seventh – [we] just planned it. Because Bunny and I played…I played up under Bunny. Bunny used to be my manager with the Norfolk Stars, before he went to the Clowns. So Bunny and I was good friends. So I booked ’em in. When the Clowns came in there he played against the Clowns, too, Aaron did, and he had a good day and everything at the bat.
He made a couple of hits. He played shortstop but he was no short…I knowed then he was no shortstop, you know. He wasn’t a shortstop. He didn’t have that rhythm, you know. He got on his knees. You know, the knees…how some guys just [go] on their knees to field a ball? He had good hands. He could catch the ball. He could run. But he wasn’t no aggressive runner. You know some guys have lots of movement and another guy runs and do just enough to get the job done. He was one that…he did just enough to get the job done. [laughter] But he always got there, same way when he got to the big leagues. The same style. He wasn’t a Willie Mays or Tommie Agee type runner, you know. Anyway, the Clowns comes in there, so Bunny Downs, he sees him too. Bunny sees him too.
RA: This is in Prichard.
ES: Yeah; Bunny sees him, and Bunny says, “You know,” he says, “I kind of like the boy, too.” [He] says, “Syd told me that you got good reports in on him,” and we got okayed. So Bunny…he was the guy that okayed it…okayed it, you know, the deal.” And he says, “I think [I’ll tell] Syd I’d taken the trouble to take a good look at him and everything, too.” So I went on and signed him and he okayed it…[the] signing. So I signed him and mailed him the contract. And then, after he got the contract and he got with the Clowns, then I had a lot of more trouble gettin’ him to leave the Clowns because Buster Mahaffey…That may not even be his name, you know. He played… yeah, he was a catcher and he was the manager at that time.
RA: For the Clowns?
ES: Yeah, uh huh. So anyway he went on, and Buster Mahaffey told him that he was supposed to get some of the signing price from the [Boston] Braves, you know. So he didn’t want to…at first he [Aaron] didn’t want to sign the contract with the Braves.
RA: Aaron didn’t want to sign the contract?
ES: No, he at first didn’t, because I had to…Syd called me and told me…[he would] send that itinerary where they would be playing at, and for me to get in touch with [Hank] Aaron and let him know that he wasn’t supposed to get any [portion of] the price of the contract [made between the Braves and Clowns].
When Syd sold Aaron, I believe it was [for] $15,000 Syd told me. I don’t know how much he got, you know. But he told me it was $15,000. And Aaron thought he was supposed to get some of that. But the guy…somebody had to pop his head up [and straighten out his thinking about the sale]. But anyway, I called…Syd told me to get in touch with Aaron, and I got him …I believe it was in Oklahoma. “Aaron,” I says, “You know when I signed you to that contract?” I said, “The Clowns is something like a farm team to a major-league team.” And I says, “A major-league team is not signing any high-school kids. They are not signing…white major- league teams are not signing any high-school teams [players] or rookies, just ordinary rookies out of high school. They’re signing guys who’ve got experience playing with a Negro League team, like Jackie Robinson, Campanella, Luke Easter, and all those guys. [That’s] where you need to sign. That’s where you want to go. You can’t make no money with the Clowns.” So I says, “You will start makin’ more money [with the Braves].” I said, “Now you are only makin’ 200 dollars a month.” I think the salary there was $5,000, you know, for major league. And I says, “You go ahead on and sign a contract.” I said, “That’s what I signed you…I didn’t sign you to stay with the Clowns.” He said, “Well, okay, I’ll sign.” I says, “You get there and you’ll be able to get there and play in the minor league.” And I says, “You’re going to get more money.” The starting salary was $375, I think it was, $375 a month when he left the Clowns, see, and started playing with Eau Claire in Wisconsin.
RA: That was his starting salary with Eau Claire?
ES: Yeah, yeah…$375 a month, which was big [money] in those days in the minor league, you know. You know, Class C, you know. So anyway, he went on and signed the contract and then he left and played there [at Eau Claire] and he almost won the batting championship in Eau Claire. I believe he was batting .340-something…a guy named [Joe] Caffie. He was in the Cleveland organization. He won [the batting title] by two points. The next year he [Aaron] goes into Jacksonville and he won the Triple Crown when he was over there in the Sally League. And the rest is history. [Ed. note: Tom Giordano’s 24 homers led Aaron by two.]
After he signed to play [with the Indianapolis Clowns], he didn’t draw but one [pay]check before he was sold [to the Braves]. And there was a story…Buck O’Neil telled me a story about him; Buck said when he first…Buck was managing the Kansas City Monarchs. So the first time Buck met him, he looked up there and Buster had him [batting] cleanup. And Buck said, “Buster, I got your lineup.” You know they always exchanged lineups in the Negro leagues. “What you got this kid battin’ cleanup? Man, you know you shouldn’t be doin’ that, puttin’ the pressure on that kid.” And Buster said, “Buck, this kid can hit.’ And he said, “Aw, Buster, you know better than that. This kid’s just startin’.” Buster said, “Okay, you’ll see.” So Buck says, “He got in the lineup,” and Buck says, “the first time he got up there [at bat], he hit it on line…a mile a minute, a rope over one of his pretty good pitchers. He hit a rope. Buck said, he said, ‘Oh well, a blind hog stumbles upon an acorn some time.” Buck says, “Gawl darn, the next time, this child…he hauled up there [to the plate, a second time] and he hit another rope.” But he had another pitcher, I believe it was Connie…I believe he said it was Connie Johnson.
RA: Playing for the Monarchs.
ES: Yeah, playing for the Monarchs. A pretty good pitcher. He said [to Johnson], “Do you know what I want you to do? I want to just see, can this kid hit? Don’t hit him, now. Just brush him back.” By God, he said, “He throwed one up under his chin.” Connie had a good curveball. He says, “You throwed him that and he spun his bat. He spun his bat and kind of spit and spin [on] his bat.” He used to spit [on] his bat. He had a habit of spittin’ [on] his bat, you know, before he got up to the plate. “Connie throwed him a good curveball. He throwed him a big curveball behind…[the pitch that] dusted him off. He hit that sucker out of here. [He] hit that sucker clean [out of] here!”
RA: Connie Johnson was a pretty good pitcher.
ES: Yeah! Yeah! [said with great emphasis]
RA: Let me just step back. The Prichard Athletics where he [Hank Aaron] started playing baseball…as far as you knew. And you say he played three games.
ES: Yep, about three games. That’s all he played.
RA: Where did you play…all in Mobile?
ES: In Mobile. Then he went…I know he went to Gulfport once, you know. Then he played another semipro team in Gulfport, Mississippi. You traveled around Florida, played Pensacola, Gulf Coast, and [in] Mississippi, you know.
RA: Do you remember any other…in other words; there were two games [Aaron played] in Mobile and one in Gulfport?
ES: Yes, uh huh. Semipro. They put “black” on it, [so] they’d know. [That’s] what you had to do with a black semipro team [inscribe the letters “black” on the uniform along with team name].
RA: Now how about in Mobile…who did you play against in Mobile?
ES: Oh this was…the Mobile teams. In Mobile you had the Mobile Buckeyes, the Whistler Stars. These were the teams around Mobile, semipro teams.
RA: And did Aaron play against those teams?
ES: No, no. Aaron just started to playing…The rest of the time was around softball and Mr. Will. He was tucked away [and no one] heard [of him] because nobody even knew anything hardly about him when he left, you know.
RA: But he played with Prichard in three games.
ES: Yes.
RA: And I’m assuming he played against three different teams?
ES: Uh, yes, yes.
RA: One of them was Gulfport.
ES: Yeah.
RA: And we’re not sure about the other two?
ES: Yeah, that’s right. I’m not sure about them. And he played against the Clowns.
RA: He played against the Clowns, right. And it was around that time that you signed him to the Clowns.
ES: Yeah, I signed him [then].
RA: This Mr. Will…was he connected with a semipro team as well?
ES: No, he never was. He had just a little “get-up” team. I never did meet Mr. Will, you know, because I didn’t even know anything about him. I just happened to go out there to a ball game this particular night when I saw him. I lived only about a mile walking distance [to the ballpark]. During that time we didn’t have TV, and we didn’t have air conditioning. TV wasn’t in Mobile at that time…just radio. And I was telling my wife I might walk out to the ball game. That’s the softball team. And she said, “You know you’re not going to find no ballplayer there.” And I told her, “I know I’m not, but it’s so hot. I’m just going out there to keep from going to bed so early.” And I was working, too, and had to get up early. I goes out there and I see this kid swinging that bat, only with a softball, fast pitch…throwing the ball about 90 miles per hour fast pitch, and he [Aaron] just kept lightin’ him up. And that’s when I asked him, did he play baseball? Because I would have liked to see whether he could hit a baseball like that.
RA: Did Hank Aaron play high-school baseball?
ES: No, they didn’t have no baseball team.
RA: Where did he go to high school?
ES: He went to…I think he went to Central.
RA: The Prichard Athletics…was that in an industrial league, coal-mining type of league, or anything like that?
ES: No, no.
RA: Was it in any particular type of league that you know of? ES: No it wasn’t because we would take off during the summer sometimes. We would barnstorm. We would barnstorm down through Florida and Georgia. We used to do that once in a while. Yeah, with the Prichard Athletics. We would barnstorm like that about a couple of weeks.
RA: I was talking with a fellow who knows the first baseman for the Philadelphia Phillies – Ryan Howard – and he believed that Henry Aaron played with his grandfather in semipro baseball. His grandfather played in an industrial league which was formed by coal miners in the South. And we were wondering if Aaron was connected with that?
ES: No, no. No, they didn’t have any coal mines around Mobile. Now in Birmingham…they had industrial teams up in Birmingham. Steel mills and stuff like that. Semipro. The Birmingham Black Barons…they had a ballfield. Now that was in a league. The Birmingham Black Barons was in a league. Negro League. Many of the ballplayers was coming from the industrial leagues, like the black…Willie Mays. Willie Mays first started off in those industrial leagues, you know.
RA: Willie Mays started in those industrial leagues?
ES: Yeah.
RA: Up in Birmingham?
ES: Yeah, that’s where he was at. Kind of like…at in Mobile. Piper Davis was the one who played with the Negro League…Piper Davis. He was the one who discovered Willie Mays, you know. He was a shortstop with the Birmingham [Black] Barons.
RA: So as far as you know then, the only semipro team that Hank Aaron played on was the team you were with, the Prichard Athletics.
ES: That’s the only one. That’s the only one he did. He didn’t play with nobody because he…even the baseball players didn’t know anything about Hank Aaron around Mobile until I discovered him. After he got away, nobody knows [anything] about him. He would be playing…he was playing with the Clowns. He was just like McCovey, you know. Now I’m going to tell you. This is a true story. Willie McCovey…I saw him play and I played against him. He was playing with the Mobile Buckeyes. Willie McCovey played with the Buckeyes. I used to field the right-field. He batted left-handed. And the right-field fence was about 275 feet and he never did hit no ball over there because… he’d pop it up to somebody else. As a matter of fact, I never did see him hit a home run. He was striking out a lot. He couldn’t run. And he wasn’t all that much with that bat. And so…a guy named…that lived down there and talked with [inaudible], his name was Jessie Thomas. He’s dead now. The brother of Showboat Thomas. Showboat Thomas played with the New York Giants, didn’t he? I believe it was [the Giants].
RA: What about Jessie Thomas?
ES: He played with the Mobile Black Shippers. He was kind of a bird dog for the New York Giants.
RA: Who…Jessie Thomas?
ES: Yeah. Pompez, with the New York Cubans. He owned the New York Cubans. He started scouting for the Giants. Jessie Thomas become a bird dog for him. So this particular time he had McCovey down there, in the car with him [driving him to the Giants’ spring training site in Florida].
They got ready …this was the guy who would tell him to go back home, you know. And he hit one about 500 feet. They said, “Wait a minute, we better look at him a little longer.” He started making contact and hittin’ ropes. So they went on to sign [McCovey]. And I talked to Choo-Choo…the manager over there. I can’t think of his name but his nickname was Choo-Choo. With the Buckeyes.
I told the [folks at the] Buckeyes, I says, “You know, I heard that they got McCovey down there.” He said, “Yes, they told us. Oh, he’ll be back.” Nobody thought that he was going to be able to make it because, you know, he had [only] one position [he could play] – first base – and he wasn’t making all that much contact. And I could have signed him. That’s the truth, I could have signed him. That’s one I really missed on. I liked him, and missed him. But…I missed him, but I didn’t even think he had a chance because of his [weak] bat, you know. And I knowed he was one-[dimensional]… didn’t have all the tools. He would have to hit [in order to make the big leagues], because he couldn’t play outfield. You know he wasn’t fast enough for that, and his feet were kind of bad [laughs]. He had bad feet. But this guy started making contact. And no one’s saying that he was [capable of making it] in the big leagues. [But he made it] in no time. And that’s a true story.
RA: And now he’s a Hall of Famer.
ES: Yes, that’s right. Yeah, I missed him because he never did anything [to impress me]. And everybody around here would tell you the same thing, that McCovey did everything [right] when he left [the Buckeyes], you know.
He was about a couple of years behind Aaron.
RA: Going through a couple of other questions I have here. You described that you signed major leaguers being Hank Aaron, George Scott, Amos Otis, Oil Can Boyd, Lynn McGlothen…and there was another one: Dana Williams?
ES: Uh, Dana never made the major leagues. I signed him but he never did make [it to] the major leagues. [Williams did appear in eight games for the 1989 Red Sox.] I signed quite a few that never did make the big leagues, you know. The first-base coach for the Red Sox now, he didn’t make it to the big leagues either.
RA: Did you have any other signings for the Indianapolis Clowns or any other Negro League team, besides Aaron?
ES: Oh, yeah. I had some I got. I signed Howard from Mobile, a pitcher. Most of those guys that I signed played with the Clowns …
RA: Did you say Laduna [phonetic]?
ES: Yeah, Laduna. Phil Laduna.
RA: Do you know how you spell his last name?
ES: No, not offhand I don’t. I scouted for Pittsburgh too. Pittsburgh, part-time commission. Joe L. Brown hired me. You know, the son of the comedian. He was with the Pittsburgh Pirates. That was before I signed with Boston.
RA: Before you started working with Boston.
ES: Yeah, that was back in the late ’50s. Yeah, ’cause…had to be. A matter of fact I was working with them just before I started working with the Red Sox. So that was 1960, maybe.
I think it was Hugh West. I never met him personally. He wanted me to work as a part-timer with the Braves after I signed Aaron. At the same time Joe L. Brown had called me from New Orleans and asked me, could I come over there and talk with them about signing one of these contracts for a commission. So I goes on over there and I goes to this hotel. I asked one of the taxi drivers around there – you know how the porter would be out there in front and gettin’ those tips with those taxis. I contacted him, and told him, would he page Mr. Joe L. Brown for me? So, this butler, he kept moving around. He goes back in to [the lobby]. He wasn’t paying me no attention. He was just running around there…running around. So after a while he goes inside. He’s at the desk, and I’m going up to the desk and he throwed both hands up for me to stop, for me to stop before I even got into the hotel. I says, “All I want you to do is…would you mind paging Mr. Joe L. Brown?” So I was going to the desk to get somebody else, you know, to page him. And he was stopping me, just [saying], “Whoa, whoa, whoa,” you know, just like that. And so he [finally] picks up the phone and he gets Mr. Brown. He says, “Mr. Brown, I got a black boy down here want[s] to see you.” It wasn’t five minutes before he’s down there.
RA: In the lobby?
ES: Yeah, in the lobby. So he’s [the porter] trying to tell him… blab, blab, blab, whatever. And Mr. Brown just didn’t pay him no attention. He just grabbed me on the back and he kind of led me on up to his room. He didn’t even answer [the porter, who was embarrassed]…answer, what he [the porter] was trying to apologize, that he didn’t know this was his [Mr. Brown’s] thing.
RA: So the porter was embarrassed.
ES: Yeah, and Mr. Brown put his hand in my back and just kept walking and took me upstairs to his room. Blacks wasn’t there. They weren’t allowed in there.
RA: Was this porter…was he white?
ES: He was white.
Mr. Joe L. Brown…he was a nice guy. Me and him, we would have had Billy Williams. That was a long story when I was in Florida. I had signed his brother, Franklin, to the Pirates. Billy was a year behind Franklin. I got him all lined up and I told his daddy, I said, “Now listen Mr. Williams,” I said, “Now all I want you to do now – I don’t want you to do anything special for me – all I want you to do is give me a chance with Billy.”
Everybody could be [signed]. There was no draft then, you know. You just go ahead and sign a guy, you know, all night. There was no draft where you could get ’em in the draft. They wasn’t drafting. So I got everything lined up…got Billy [Williams]. I had a card on him and everything, information on him and everything [sent] into Pittsburgh. So what I had to do…he put me up under Buddy Hancken. He was the main scout [for Pittsburgh]. I was working up under Buddy Hancken when we got Franklin [Williams]. But they put him…Buddy Hancken in another territory. They [then] put me up under Fred Herring.
RA: Were you the only black scout on the Pirates?
ES: Yes, yes…as far as I know. So now, they put me up under him [Fred Herring]. I call him up and I said, “You know, Billy is now eligible. He’s gettin’ out of school. He’s ready to be signed.” He wanted to come and sign him. He wouldn’t [trust] me to go and take a contract and let me mail it back to him, get him to sign, and all of that. And he says, “I just can’t get down there right now.” I said, “Okay, then.” So I don’t think anyone’s interested in Billy [Williams]. I don’t think anyone [was] interested in Billy. So now, Billy is out there playing ball with the Prichard Athletics. Yeah, he played with the Athletics, too. I went and got him from his home and brought him there and put his first uniform on with the Prichard Athletics. He was playing around with a little team in Whistler. That’s where he’s from, Whistler. Whistler Stars. So I went up there and got him in my car, got him, put him in there and he started to play [for]…he was playing third base. I told him he was more of an outfielder than a third baseman…So now, Tommie Aaron – Hank Aaron’s brother – was playing also out there with the Athletics. So now this scout…Ivy, Ivy [Griffin]. He was with the Cubs. He came out there to look at Tommie Aaron. And I sees him out there. That’s the only time I ever saw a scout out there, you know. I never did see a white scout out there.
RA: Was Ivy a black scout?
ES: He was white. And that’s the first time I saw one out there. He had a pad in his hand and he was standing right there, and I knowed he was a scout. So he goes out there…he’s out there lookin’ at Tommie. And he sees Billy Williams. Billy Williams was batting left-handed, and he had a left-handed pitcher pitching to him. Billy was the only one who was lightin’ him up. He [Ivy] leaves there and he goes right on to Billy’s house. He gets his address and everything, found out where he stays and everything, and somebody took him there – or what – I don’t know what happened. He goes there and he signed [Billy Williams]. I’m calling him up [Mr. Williams] letting him know that Fred Herring will be another three or four days before he could get there. So I picked up the phone and called Billy’s daddy, and I asked to speak to Billy. And he told me that Billy’s not there. And I says, “Where’s he at?” He says, “He’s gone to Oklahoma.” And I says, “What’s he, on vacation?” He said, “No, the Cubs signed him up last night.” [laughs]
And I says, “Mr. Williams, I didn’t think you would do that to me.” He said, “You know what? I need you to come up here and kick my butt.” That’s what he said, just like that. I says, “Because I’d already told you who asked to sign him, be sure to give me a shot at him.” I know that bidding in baseball is a business and the one who gives him the highest price, he’ll sign with, “so give me a shot at it.” But he didn’t even call me and let me know, or let me know the guy was there. I heard a lot of stories that the guy [Ivy Griffin] kind of sugared him up a little bit and Billy didn’t get anything as far as his contract signing, nothing in the contract. He signed him. They gave him something after but I don’t think he got nothing before he signed.
All I wanted him to do was give me a chance, and what was best for Billy, you know. There wasn’t no draft then. And black guys just wasn’t gettin’ any money for signing, you know, in those days. They were so glad to get in to play baseball, you know. So I tried to get him as much as I could, but I couldn’t go up there and tell him I might give him a bonus because they wasn’t givin’ no bonuses in those days to no blacks. So anyway, Billy goes on and the Cubs sign him. So that’s how I missed Billy, and Pittsburgh missed Billy.
RA: What about Tommie Aaron? He signed with the Braves, didn’t he?
ES: Yeah, he signed to the Braves. I knowed I wouldn’t even have had a chance. I didn’t even try. I told the organization…Hank Aaron signed with them, and I know he was going to get a better deal over there with them.
RA: How long were you with Pittsburgh as a scout?
ES: It was a commission [job], you know. All the time I was a scout. It wasn’t like a contract that I got with Boston. It was a commission.
RA: Well…1960? You joined the Red Sox in ’61? Didn’t you leave the Clowns in ’59?
ES: It must have been something like that…yep, yep. That’s right.
RA: You seemed to have a relationship with Joe L. Brown. How did he discover you?
ES: Well…you see now, how he discovered me…I think he discovered me through that letter that I wrote to Branch Rickey. I wrote him a letter and sent him all this information about the [Hank] Aaron signing, his height and weight, and who he was playing with – with the Clowns, you know. That was during the time that…yeah, that when I wrote to Mr. Branch Rickey, that letter. You know, about Hank Aaron…I told him who he was playing with because I know…I sent him to the Clowns because I knew he was going to be seen there, you know?
RA: Now Branch Rickey…was he with Pittsburgh at that time?
ES: Uh, huh. He was with Pittsburgh. He was against racism. That’s why I wrote him the letter, because he was with the Dodgers, you know, during the time of Jackie Robinson. All those times.
RA: Yeah, that’s right. Then he went to Pittsburgh … So that’s how Joe L. Brown got your name.
ES: Yeah, that’s how he got my name.
RA: Do you know any other – either full time or part time – scouts for the Negro League teams that may be still living?
ES: No, I tell you what. I think all of them [are dead].
RA: All of them are gone?
ES: Piper Davis, Sam Hairston…his grandson played with Baltimore. I think he’s with the White Sox now. That’s his grandson. His granddaddy used to manage. Also his daddy used to play with the White Sox. He is black.
RA: So you don’t believe there are any Negro League scouts that may be living today, besides yourself?
ES: No, I know a bunch of them died. I went down to New Orleans a couple of years ago. The black scouts had a kind of Black Scouts Association. They had me come up there in New Orleans…
RA: Oh, the Buck O’Neil Award.
ES: Yes. I got one of those awards.
RA: I read an interesting article that when you were with the Red Sox that there were three other black scouts working for the Red Sox. Stan Johnson was in California; a Louis Guiles in Los Angeles; and a Felix Maldonado is in Puerto Rico.
ES: Yeah…Felix. He played in the minor leagues. He’s still with them.
RA: He’s still with the Red Sox?
ES: He was to retire this year but he was going to wait and still work as a consultant with them. That’s what he told me. Last year was the first year I didn’t go down to spring training. This past year, I didn’t go down to spring. I talked to Felix, and he was coming down and he was also managing the Instruction League. I imagine he’s down there now when the Instruction League starts. He used to come down there and be an instructor, you know, every year.
RA: Where does he live?
ES: He lives in Puerto Rico.
RA: How about Stan Johnson and Louis Guiles…are they still living?
ES: Stan Johnson…I never did meet them. They might have been scouts since I left.
RA: Well, they were supposed to be scouts around the time you were there in 1971.
ES: Oh, I never did see them at a meeting. I can’t think of the other guy. Just one of them lives…I can’t think of his name.
RA: Louis Guiles…he was another one.
ES: That name don’t ring a bell.
RA: You were described in that article as being the scout to cover the Central and South.
ES: I never did meet ’em. I was in every meeting that we had. So they may have been a part-time scout or something. Not a full- time scout like me. I got paid year-round, you know. Those are my thoughts.
RA: One little thing I wanted to discuss with you. We may have discussed this. I don’t remember, on Hank Aaron. What did you say his age was when he first started with Prichard?
ES: Seventeen…[Did you know] Tommie Agee of the Mets?
RA: Tommie Agee of the Mets. Yes.
ES: Agee…he died. He played in the World Series. He [also] played for the Whistler Stars. That’s one of the suburbs of Mobile.
RA: Now, Vida Blue?
ES: Vida Blue.
RA: And he had the motion of a Sandy Koufax.
ES: Yes.
RA: Yeah, that was in ’67 when he was drafted.
ES: Yeah I remember I got that…went up to Mansfield out in Louisiana. Boy, I just saw this kid, and he just poured it on. I didn’t know, and I thought I had to sleep back out in those woods…Desoto High School.
RA: What state was that in?
(End of interview.)
RA: Ron Anderson again talking to Ed Scott. Today’s date is March 3, 2007, and I’m continuing in the discussion with Ed concerning his experiences in major-league scouting. Ed, I’m going to jump around a little bit because there are some different things that kind of popped out at me on the transcribed interview. But I did want to ask you this, though: I think you indicated to me earlier that you have three sons, is that right?
ES: Yes, uh huh. My oldest one is Edward, Jr. My next one is Alexander. And the next one is John. My oldest one, he’s 62 years old. And Alex just turned 61. And John, he was born in ’55.
RA: Do they all live near you?
ES: Same town. One of them lives over in Spanish Fort. That’s right across the Bay from Mobile. And four daughters.
RA: I also wanted to ask you a question, jumping back to the Prichard Athletics. Who sponsored the Athletics at that time?
ES: During that time when they first got the team up, it was something like sandlot [baseball]. That’s a little semipro team and they had something like memberships, you know. Everybody paid so much, you know, when they first started. They picked a manager, a playing manager. We just started off from that. I’m trying to think of the first manager that we had…T.J. Marks. You know, it’s a funny thing. I can’t remember what the “T.J.” stands for.
RA: Getting back to Pompez. Did you know him?
ES: Well I met him. I met him and talked with him on occasion.
RA: But you never played for him or anything like that on any of his teams.
ES: No.
RA: When I was looking at the transcribed interview that you and I had done together previously, you got into some discussion about Branch Rickey and a letter that you sent to Branch Rickey. You had mentioned something about Hank Aaron and all of those details …
ES: Yes, when I first signed Hank, there wasn’t many Negroes… scouts weren’t signing no black high-school kids and things like college kids. They was feeding off the Negro League teams, like Jackie Robinson, Campanella, Luke Easter. All those guys that made the major leagues came out of the Negro Leagues. So they was theonly blacks that they were signing at that time. So I wrote a letter to Mr. Rickey and told him the guy’s…his height and weight, and his address. Hank Aaron. “You should put somebody on him to follow him, and he is with the Indianapolis Clowns.” I knowed when I signed him to the Clowns, that was going to be the startin’ point, you know, for Negro players. So I got a reply answer from him, that he – Mr. Branch Rickey – told me that he received my letter and that he was turning the letter over to George Sisler. George Sisler was the farm director, you know. [Rickey was Pirates GM 1951-1956]
RA: Did you write to Rickey at all about any other players?
ES: No, that was the only one because I started working some [informally – not under any contract] with the Pirates. I started working with the Pirates [on a commission basis] when Mr. Joe L. Brown was [the general manager]. I went over with the Red Sox in the ’60s.
RA: How long were you with the Pirates on a commission basis?
ES: Well, I would say…it was directly after ’52 until after they was in the World Series. I know I was with ’em then, so in ’61 [with the Red Sox], yeah.
RA: Okay, so you were with the Pirates for a few years on a commission basis. Were you still connected with the Clowns at that time?
ES: I left the Clowns, they was dying out. The Negro Leagues was fading out. They was startin’ fading. I left the Clowns and went to scout for the Pirates.
RA: Did Franklin [Williams] make the majors?
ES: No, no…he didn’t make it. I heard he got…I talked to his minor-league scout. He was [also] Franklin Williams’ manager in the minor league. I was talking to him up in St. Joe at a tournament – St. Joe, Missouri – and this manager…I told him, “Yeah, I signed Franklin.” And he says, “You know, I begged Mr. Rickey.” He was playing, I believe it was Class C. “I begged Mr. Rickey to let me take Franklin and play A ball.” And he said, “Mr. Rickey wouldn’t let me. Now I was managing him. Now I always believed Franklin was a better ballplayer than Billy Williams.” And I had several guys that told me that, you know…minor-league [managers] you know. And he said, “Franklin had more tools. He could run better, had a better arm, and I thought he was a better ballplayer.” But I think he got into Mr. Rickey’s doghouse, something about white girls or something like that…But this manager was telling me he managed him in the minor leagues and he begged Mr. Rickey to let him take him to a higher league classification. And Mr. Rickey wouldn’t let him.
RA: Getting back to the letter you wrote to Branch Rickey: Did you get into anything specifically about the inequality of pay scale for black players, or was it just specifically Hank Aaron?
ES: Oh, pay scales…pay scales during that time. I signed him for $200; yeah it was $200 a month. His [pay] was $200 a month for the Clowns and he only drawed one check. And the check was $250. That’s what I got [for information] from Syd Pollock. He give him $250, bought him a suitcase, and I think he bought him a suit. And so that’s how he got his first pay after he started playing. And for the Braves…I think the Braves started with $375 a month in Class C, which was Eau Claire, Wisconsin. I don’t know what the scales was when he…I think probably $400 something when he went to Class A.
RA: But your letter to Branch Rickey was done at a time that you were scouting for Pittsburgh, so I’m assuming you were trying to convince Rickey to take Hank Aaron. Is that right?
ES: When the letter was [written], I was still working with the Clowns. I was still working with the Clowns, and I knowed the Clowns was a farm team for the minor leagues at that time. And I wrote to Branch Rickey because I figured he [Aaron] was going to get a better chance with Pittsburgh…any team that Branch Rickey had [would give black players a better chance to make it]…because I had problems with Aaron leaving after he was picked up [by the Clowns] and the Clowns was trying to sell him. Because that’s the way he [Pollock] was making any money, selling off those players during that time because he was selling all the Negro players that was coming out of the Negro League, at that time. Just like Campanella, Jackie Robinson, Doby, Buster Haywood, Luke Easter, Frank Robinson. That’s all you could name that any of those players at that time, they had played in the Negro League at some point.
I don’t know what happened. They didn’t get him. [laughs]
RA: Right. And so I’m saying to myself, why didn’t anybody from Pittsburgh come down to take a look at him?
ES: I imagine they did. But they probably didn’t like him, you know. Because he was a kid that…he had on [the scouting] report [on Aaron] that he fell on his knees [when fielding], which he did. He got on his knees and tried to field the balls that was coming to him, you know, like at shortstop…he would get down on one knee, you know, to kind of field the ball like an outfielder would do to keep the ball from going through his legs, you know? And he would get down on one knee to field the ball instead of fielding the ball in position to throw it. That’s when he was playing when I first signed him, you know. But his bat was the thing that I was so [impressed with]. I know he could run, he could throw – and he had all those three things – and swing the bat. But those other things you could teach, you know. And so that’s where I was at. When I was taking him to the train, I had wrote a little note and I sealed it up… and I had on this note, “Bunny” – that was Bunny Downs – “forget everything about this kid, just watch him bat.” That’s all I had on that note, and I had to seal it up and give it to Hank [Aaron]. And I said, “Hank, when you get to [inaudible] field give this note to Bunny Downs.” The first thing I got was [a note from Downs], “doing fine,” because he started to really teeing off the ball, hittin’ home runs and everything else. And he [Downs] had him at shortstop but I knowed he wasn’t going to be no shortstop, and they moved him to outfield. The rest was history.
RA: Getting back to the Pirates, you don’t remember then whether anybody came down [to see him] or not.
ES: No, no…see I wouldn’t even have a chance to know anything about that because he was playing with the Clowns. They was playing. He was already on the Clowns team. I don’t know, but they never responded to me they looked at him and saw him, you know. The Clowns wasn’t here in Mobile. The Clowns was in Winston-Salem – spring training – and there was no way for me to tell. I know that I heard the report that they had…or somebody was saying the Giants was there and they were saying he was fielding the ball with his knees. I got a letter from Syd Pollock…that’s who told me that. Syd Pollock told me that.
Syd wrote to me a letter, and also called me, and said, “I got an offer from the Braves, and they’re interested in Aaron. But Aaron does not want to sign unless he gets some of the money.” And he give me a schedule of where the Clowns was playing at, and asked me to call Aaron and talk to him. So I finally…I got him, and I talked to Aaron. I said, “Hank, you know the reason I sent you to the Clowns was to try to get to a major-league contract.” And I says, “There’s nothing in your contract about you’re supposed to get some of that pay.” I said, “If you stay with the Clowns, you’re not going to make no money no more than that $250, but now you got a chance to make thousands of dollars gettin’ into the big leagues.” Just like that, on the telephone, I said, “You need to go ahead on and just sign the [Braves] contract.” So he said, “Well, okay, I’ll sign.” So he signed the contract with the Braves.
RA: Well, that’s quite a story. A couple of more things I wanted to ask you, Ed. As you well know, the major-league baseball draft system began in 1965. What are your thoughts about that change to the draft from what was going on prior to that time?
ES: I tell you one thing; I liked it better before the draft myself. Because before the draft you had to scout. You had to get out and look for something. But the draft, what it did…trying to balance the league more by drafting…you know, the lower teams getting a chance to pick first. But one thing it did, it didn’t balance the dollars because during that time [before the draft] the bonuses weren’t as high, you just sign them for a little bit of money, you know. You’d go and give ‘em $2,000 or $3,000, or $8,000. But now – when you get ready to sign a guy now – that you gotta give…running up there in millions of dollars to sign him. I think it really kind of hurt baseball. I had to go out there and scout. I had to go out, and I couldn’t sit home and look at TV and scout [that way], or sit up in the motel and scout. I had to get out there and find that ballplayer, but now they have the Bureau…the Scouting Bureau. The Scouting Bureau is turning over reports to all the major-league [teams]. I could go out there and find a “sleeper” that nobody would see; and they got coaches on baseball teams working for ’em [Scouting Bureau], and send [their reports] to the Bureau. It’s so much different, you know, than in other years when I was scouting.
RA: So you could make your own discovery and keep it quiet.
ES: That’s right. You’d go out there and find your sleeper. You’d just kinda hide the “find” one night, you know, that didn’t…that nobody seen, you know. And I remember that you wouldn’t even sign nobody at a black school…scouting black ballplayers. You never did see ’em.
RA: The Scouting Bureau…do they have their own scouts?
ES: Yes, they have their own scouts and they turns their [reports] to the Scouting Bureau…the Scouting Bureau turns their reports [in to] all the major-league teams, all of them. They gets a copy of it. And then they in turn – they often, in turn – send you that report that they got [from the Bureau]. They send you that report and you [team scout] works from there.
One time they was gettin’ rid of all of ’em. The major leagues was gettin’ rid of all the scouts, but they find out [this wasn’t working well for them]. Later on…the Red Sox didn’t…Dick O’Connell wrote me a letter and said, “Ed, I’m sure you heard that most of the guys is going with the Bureau, but we would like to retain all of our scouts that we got in our organization.” They didn’t cut ’em. They didn’t start to cuttin’ them like [Charlie] Finley started doing. [But later] Finley started working direct [using his scouts as before and going around the Bureau]. He started working direct. He found it wasn’t going to work [for him] because the Bureau was turning in players to all the teams. But the players that I saw, only the Red Sox – I was a scout for the Red Sox – knowed about ‘em. So we was getting players from the Bureau and our individual.
RA: Let me ask you this: Where some teams, such as the Red Sox, retained their scouts; and you could go out apparently and continue to do scouting as you always did, if you found somebody did you have to report that person to the Bureau, as well?
ES: No, no…I didn’t tell the Bureau nothin’. They [the Red Sox] didn’t want you to tell because if you told the Bureau you’da told the world. That’s why we had the individual [scouts]. We didn’t tell…That was our “sleeper.” You would want to stay away from the Bureau if you could. You’d use the Bureau, but you didn’t let the Bureau use you.
RA: So how did you get around the draft situation? Could you sign that player without him ever being in the draft?
ES: No, no…only the Bureau…see, what happens. If I find…if I saw a ballplayer and I liked him I’d fill out my report, and I send everything – what I thought about the kid – and I send [it] direct to my office [in Boston]. They counted on my report more than what they did the Bureau.
So this ballplayer from Florida A&M – I’m lookin’ at him. The scouts would always come to Florida A&M at this black school, and right across the street, it was Florida State. And they was coming in and lookin’ at him a little while. Florida State was playing ball at the same time. All the scouts would go over there to Florida State and look at their ballplayers. So this ballplayer here at Florida A&M, I had been watching this kid and I said, “This kid here’s worth following. I like this kid.” And I started to follow him and I turned in a report [to the Red Sox] in on him. I got the report from the Bureau [which didn’t rate him very high]. “This kid’s a better player than that,” I said [to myself]. “This kid here, he’s got good potential to be a major-league ballplayer.” And so when the draft came up they asked me about him. So I lost him on account of the Bureau, or I think I did, because I figured [based on the Bureau ranking] that it was another ballplayer [that would go higher] – the name Hannon. Every time I’d go to see him there’d be some scouts there in high school, and this kid would hit home runs. And so when the draft came up – I had him [targeted] in the draft – and I told my boss, I says, “Listen, get…” Dawson – Dawson – Andre Dawson! The scouts had him so low. So when the draft came up they [Red Sox] asked me which one I wanted first. I said, “Well, get me Heimann,” I said, “because that draft, the Bureau has got him [Dawson] so low, I think we can get this guy here if he’s around when our draft turn comes.”
RA: So they had Dawson so low in the ranking …
ES: That’s right. I figured I could get this other kid and come back and get him [Dawson]. I thought sure I was going to get the kid – ’cause I talked about it [with him], and he was around for a long time before they drafted him. I called up my boss at that time, and I says, “Hey, what happened to Dawson?” And he says, “Scott, we can’t get everybody.” I said, “Yeah, but look what he was drafted at,” I says, “and where I had him at.” I had him in Double A [slot], and he was way down [on the draft list], you know. He says, “Well, if we [try to] sign all the players – good players – we won’t get nobody to play,” [laughs], he said just like that. Haywood Sullivan. Haywood Sullivan was the farm director [over] the scouts at that time. I think we had one draft choice that made the majors.
RA: Let me go back to trying to understand the draft situation. If you had found Andre Dawson – as it appears you did – on your own, what could you have done where the draft was now in existence? Do you have to put his name on…do you have to report him to the Scouting Bureau anyway?
ES: No, no…you don’t tell the Bureau anything. Because if I had turned him over [to them], and the Bureau knowed about him… if the Bureau would have had a good report on him, every time you went out there, I’d have seen ten or 15 scouts.
RA: You couldn’t sign him independently; you still had to throw his name into the draft.
ES: Yeah, he still had to be drafted. I couldn’t go and sign him at that time. Before the Bureau…I could just call up there [to the Red Sox]. I would call up and tell…just like George Scott. Did I ever tell you when I first tried to sign George … how good I liked him? He was the first ballplayer [with major-league potential] that I saw, and that I liked. And he [Neil Mahoney, Red Sox farm director] asked me how good I liked him, and I told him if this is not a major-league prospect you can give [me] my walking papers…did I tell you that? George was before the draft. I stuck my neck out on George, and Mr. Neil [Mahoney] told [me], he never had a scout tell him that. I told him if this is not a major-league prospect you can give me my walking papers. And he told everybody…Milt Bolling and everybody else that he never had a scout to tell him that, and that’s how I got [George] Scott [laughs].
Every player that the Bureau turns in they [Red Sox] want us [Sox scouts] to see. That’s when they turn in that report to everybody in that territory. If they got a guy here…around here, and the Bureau sees him, and the Bureau [scouts] sends that report in to the Bureau, the Bureau sends that report to every major-league team, and every major-league team sends that report to their scouts in that territory. And their scouts in that territory has to see that player. You’ve got to see that player once the Bureau turns ’em in. You’ve got to see ’em, and turn in a report what you think about him.
RA: But in those situations where you as a scout might have discovered somebody that the Scouting Bureau is not aware of, you need to put that name on the draft.
ES: You gotta go through the Bureau. The Bureau don’t like… they hate for a ballplayer [not to be reported to them]. And then, [all] other teams don’t like the Bureau if they don’t know anything about him. So you take Oil Can Boyd…I signed Oil Can Boyd. The Bureau didn’t have no report in on him. And when I turned in Oil Can Boyd, then everybody [else] was around there turning in other guys…and when Oil Can Boyd popped up [on the draft list], boy, the Bureau was shocked, you know.
RA: They were shocked.
ES: Yeah. So the Bureau didn’t have him in [on the draft list] and I had him in [the draft]. Because you…the scouts would ask, “Hey, [about] this person…do the Bureau have this person [listed]?” [They would say], “No, we don’t have anything in on this kid.” So that’s what they go by. They use that kind of like [a main source of player prospect information]…They [Scouting Bureau] had a kid that went number one. He was drafted number one. I’m talking now about a kid…I can’t remember his name now. He was the number one draft out of Peoria, Illinois. He was the number one draft choice out of high school and out of college, and [Haywood] Sullivan…and I kept droppin’ down on him when he got to college. [Haywood] Sullivan, says, “Scott, I’ve noticed on your reports you keep going down on this kid.” I said, “Well, I tell you. I looked at this kid today and he got struck out about three times. His bat’s just been going worse and worse every year. I can’t put him that high.” I says, “I like to have the kid. I would put him Triple A [level].” I said, “The reason I’m putting him Triple A, I’m just putting that on there for what I saw when he first came to Southern [University].” He still went number one [in the] draft. [Scott was speaking of Danny Goodwin.]
RA: So your hunch was right.
ES: Yeah…so that’s what you do with the Bureau. You get their reports…you got to deal with your organization. You’d probably lose your job if that player gets drafted and you don’t have any report in on him. You send a report in on him. You report what you see, but… still, you got to report it on what the Bureau turned in.
RA: Well it shows the value of teams retaining good scouts. So some major-league teams kept their scouts and some didn’t.
ES: All of them kept some but just about everybody – I knowed most of them – they cut down on their scouts because they started using the Bureau for the first year or so; but they found out that didn’t work too good.
RA: How many scouts did they [the Bureau] have and do they have?
ES: I really don’t know, but I know one thing, they’ve got enough to just about cover all the territory, you know.
RA: Who pays their salaries?
ES: Each club got to pay the Bureau. Each team has to donate so much money to the Bureau.
RA: Okay. So major-league teams subsidize the Bureau.
ES: Yeah, each major-league [team] spends so much money so that’s why they got in there…all the teams have to pay because they’d send that in…their report into the Bureau. When they send it in to the Bureau, the Bureau would in turn photostat [the report] and send it to all the major league [teams].
RA: Well, I guess you can understand why some of the teams let their scouts go if they were paying the Bureau for what they believed to be at that time the same thing.
ES: Yeah, yeah. Yes, that’s right.
RA: But the Red Sox realized that there was value to keeping their own scouts.
ES: That’s right. They was keeping their own scouts. The Red Sox were such a team when, the first time that it happened – when I retired, [there] was three of us retired: Digby, myself, and [sounds like Howard]. I can’t think of his name. George Digby could tell you…it was all three of us. Three of us retired at the same time. We had been with the team 107 years total amount with the Red Sox… 120 years, I think it was. When we retired, they gave all three of us brand-new Mercury cars…the Red Sox. They had my car shipped to me at the Mercury place. They did Digby the same way, and Howard the same way. Mrs. Yawkey was living then. Mrs. Yawkey went and give us the keys to it. They had a little party for us up in Boston. Man, we was excited. None other teams ever did that, you know.
RA: On the stories of Blue Moon Odom and Vida Blue. You had some stories connected with those two players.
ES: Yeah, now Vida Blue and Blue Moon Odom…that was the year before the draft. That was before the draft, Blue Moon Odom was. During that time I couldn’t stay in the Holiday Inn and these other motels. I had to go and stay in the YMCA or stay in a rooming house, or stay with somebody else. So I [was at] Blue Moon Odom’s house. When I got there I stayed at his house. I paid his mother 25 dollars…for the “motel,” we called it. I stayed there to influence [him] in trying to get Blue Moon. Because there was no draft. So if you could sign a guy…you get there first that would help. So I would go there, pick up the tab. A lot of times when you’d go to the store and bring things like that [to prospects’ homes]. [Charlie] Finley found that out through his scout that I was staying there. So then Finley, himself, he came personally, himself…He came down there [to Odom’s home] himself. When he got there, he was talkin’ and he had a picture made of himself and he gave that to him [Blue Moon Odom] before the time that he signed him. He had this picture… Mrs. Odom had this picture of Finley in the living room. That was before he signed him. A lot of people saw Finley, so neighbors would start to comin’ over there on D Street – that’s where they lived, on D Street. He gave every one of them…he got every one of them a signed jacket and cap. He had a whole box of jackets shipped to Odom’s house. I’m going there and I sees this box one day when I was staying there at the house. And when I got up, here’s a box. And so Finley come the next day behind [following up on] the box. Finley asked, “Where’s Ed Scott?” Mrs. Odom said, “He’s back there in the room.” “Tell him to come out, tell him to come out. Tell Ed to come out…let me talk with him. Let me see him.” So I went out there [in the front of the house] and [he] was so friendly, he shook my hand and everything, and started talkin’. And he was talkin’ to other people around, and he says, “Now, you know what. I want everybody…I want all you to put on one of these caps and one of these jackets, and I want you all to parade down D Street about the Athletics. And I want Ed Scott to lead the parade.” I said, “I’ll be damned if I get like that.” [laughs long and loud]
That was the day after he signed Blue Moon Odom. She [Mrs. Odom] told me the bid…and I had to get the bid, because…I called up my boss and I told him that I was going to have trouble and that I would need somebody down here because the bid was $70,000. So my boss, [he said], “Well, I’ll tell ya, I think we’ll let him go on and have him because if we send Mr. Yawkey down there…if Mr. Yawkey has to come down there, that would probably run that bid too high.” So he said, “Let Finley have his [man] for $70,000.”
RA: Do you know what Odom was asking for?
ES: No, no. He wasn’t asking…during those times there was no asking. Boy, he would have signed…he would have just signed a contract, you know. He would have just signed the contract. The first guy that got there…I signed a lot of kids for $8,000. During those times…because the kids – especially the black kids – you signed them, because when you got that money up there, they didn’t walk away from it. No, the teams wasn’t givin’ those black kids…they wasn’t gettin’ that kind of money. Most of ’em…they was just gettin’ a contract. And the club would put on there…on the contract, “If you make it to Class A, and if you make it to Class Double A, so much, and Triple A so much; and if you make it to the majors, so much,” and stuff like that, you know.
RA: Is this what they did mostly with the black kids, or did they do this with the others as well?
ES: Mostly…well, what I can say is…I was scouting the black [kids]. Mostly it was with the blacks, but the whites weren’t gettin’ much either. A lot of them was gettin’ the same.
RA: So what was it that made Odom turn around toward Finley, the money?
ES: Money. Oh yes, money, money. Yes. That’s what it was. All that other stuff helped it some but that money was the big thing.
RA: Money was the talker, huh?
ES: Because I think I had more influence on him in the family, and all that. Because I stayed there and told them, “Money’s there,” you know…and stuff like that.
RA: Until Charlie Finley came to town…and brought his show.
ES: Yeah, yeah [laughs].
RA: What about Vida Blue? How close were you to signing him?
ES: Well I never did get too close to signing him. All I did on him was turning in my report that he had the rhythm of Koufax, and stuff like that…and he’s one of the best lookin’ kids – pitchers – that I had seen, you know, in my minor leagues since I was scouting. So I had him up there [ranked] Double A, I believe it was.
RA: Was he high in the draft?
ES: Oh yeah, yeah. I think he was up there…yeah; he was high in the draft, uh huh.
RA: Did you have any scouting relationship with Vida Blue?
ES: Yeah, yeah. Another guy tells me about him…an umpire. He was over in Mansfield.
RA: An umpire?
ES: Yeah, at Mansfield [Louisiana]. That’s where Vida Blue was at.
RA: Oh, his town?
ES: The school, yeah. He told…he’s the one who heard from me on him. He was umpiring the high schools teams around up in there. I saw him at Grambling College, and this umpire told me about him. And that’s how I found out about him. I used to get a lot of dope from those umpires, you know.
RA: Now Rodney Richard? He was with Houston? And you scouted him? James Rodney Richard…J.R. Richard. And he played ’71 through ’80, all for Houston. Won 107 games and lost 71. And you scouted him in behalf of the Red Sox?
ES: Yeah, I saw him when he was 16 years old, or 17, in high school. He was 6-feet-2 and 205 pounds at that time. And he was throwing that ball…he could really throw it. Houston got him. Pat Gillick. Pat…yeah, me and Pat used to scout together a lot down through Louisiana, down in there. Texas. Oh, they was right on him. They was having about two or three scouts traveling with each other [watching Richard], you know, when I’d go over in that territory.